AI After Dark

00;00;00;02 - 00;00;18;12
Unknown
Okay. Hunter. Thanks. So so I, right now we've been talking a lot about, like, defense ability of of I native. That's just top of mind right now. I would love for you to tell me about how you're building unlimited I but but how how how is that process changed for you as things have continue to speed up and how you're building, you know, native business?

00;00;18;12 - 00;00;43;13
Unknown
Yeah. Well, I mean, first, thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here. And also, to your point on defense ability, I feel like things have changed a lot in just like the last year, year and a half. Because initially, everyone, everyone thought, well, you know, you have your niche or your data moat or that one little thing that you do really, really well, and that's how you build the defense ability around it.

00;00;43;16 - 00;01;15;12
Unknown
And I think that people are beginning to see that change a lot given, sort of the advancements we've had just recently with the agenda, you know, workflows and the systems and the capability for individuals to essentially spin up their own SaaS software over a weekend of, vibe going with cloud. And so the way at least we think about invincibility, unlimited is the idea that you have to control various aspects of the product.

00;01;15;15 - 00;01;42;09
Unknown
You have to have that data moat, but then you also have to have this information layer where you are applying AI to your data. And once you you get yes that that felt. Yeah. Yeah. This is, this is where we needed to just before we started anyway. Yeah. You have to have this data layer. Yeah. And once you build the sort of the application, you, you have the application layer and you also have the intelligence layer.

00;01;42;16 - 00;02;03;19
Unknown
And so it's owning this sort of in process and, trying to bring your product so that it can solve multiple solutions, not just a single point solution. We very firmly believe that single point solutions are kind of dinosaurs. They are going to go out of lots, like you said, people are just going to build their.

00;02;03;20 - 00;02;45;06
Unknown
Exactly. So the more the more you can build, a comprehensive suite of solutions and integrate them together and use that data layer mixed with the AI intelligence layer to bridge them so that people have an end to end, seamless process that I think is going to set you up for a lot of success in, you know, the years to come with all of this sort of advancement in AI because, you know, to your point, if you can spin up a single point solution over a weekend that is not a defensible moat, moreover, having unique or difficult to access data sources, that is going to help you as well.

00;02;45;08 - 00;03;07;12
Unknown
If you know, you're relying on just publicly available information or things that you can find on the internet, or you are fully relying on a user to, provide you the data. So such as just, you know, a CRM, recordings of you and a client, that is something you can build in-house because you own all of that already.

00;03;07;14 - 00;03;31;23
Unknown
And so those sort of solutions, I think are going to be very, very, easy to, you know, replicate in the future. And the best thing a company can do is try to offer a broader product set. And also it's easier for companies to do this now because they have the capability to code this up. You know, used to is very, very expensive to build, even just a single suite of solutions.

00;03;31;26 - 00;03;48;05
Unknown
And now by building multiple companies can do that a lot faster. And so we have to stay ahead of that as well. We can't just sit there and go, well, we've, we've we've solved this one thing really, really well. It's like you may have, but somebody else can come along. They can solve that one thing. They can solve ten others.

00;03;48;08 - 00;04;06;18
Unknown
So we have to stay ahead of the game when it comes to multiple solutions. Do you, do y'all look at delight or user delight as a moat as well? In terms of the the interface is that oh, that's something I guess some, some context. What I was thinking was like, yeah, if you can build your own, it feels a bit like when spreadsheets came out and it was like, yeah, I can build my own spreadsheet.

00;04;06;18 - 00;04;21;00
Unknown
It's really helpful to me. But the second I give it to someone else, they're like, I don't know how to make heads or tails of this. And they have to like, work through all the formulas to figure that out. In a similar vein, I can build my own artifacts to execute on my solutions or for workflows. But no one else is going to pick it up and do it right.

00;04;21;01 - 00;04;41;22
Unknown
And so the ability to have that, like user engagement that's ubiquitous across a customer, I have to imagine it has some defense ability to it. I, I think you're 100% spot on. And so that's one of the things we focus on quite a bit, is sort of the user experience. And for us it kind of comes in two forms.

00;04;41;22 - 00;05;00;29
Unknown
One, it's the literal UI overlay that somebody sees and making sure it's a really polished, clean product, because that's going to set you apart. There's there's no more people going into marketing going, well, I've got this in VP. It's a little janky, but, you know, see through it and everything can be at such a high production level nowadays.

00;05;01;01 - 00;05;21;10
Unknown
And that's expected. You know, I like to use YouTube as an example. You know, if you go back to like OG, YouTube, the original stuff that was on there, it looked like Crown Icon. Yeah. And it was it was filmed on people's, you know, like on a potato or on their camera, on their old computers. And, and yet if it was informative, it was good, you know, it'd get likes, so would get traction.

00;05;21;12 - 00;05;41;16
Unknown
And now everything that is put on that platform, if you want likes, if you want traction, if you want engagement, it better be production level. It better be polished. And, and so you've, you've seen the quality that people demand. I think in the marketplace has gone way up when it comes to technology and what they expect from the user experience.

00;05;41;18 - 00;06;06;11
Unknown
On top of that, something that I stress a lot with our tech team is the wow factor. So first off, they should say wow when they see it, but then they should also say wow when they experience it. And that's something I does really well because it's really the sort of it's the first technology I think people have been able to interact with, and it gives back an almost human level response.

00;06;06;11 - 00;06;33;22
Unknown
I think it's what makes it so compelling as a technology, especially for, you know, your regular consumer. I mean, I remember the first time I used OpenAI and, you know, ChatGPT at the time was, it still kind of is not a very impressive UI as far as you know, the actual experience goes. But you asked it something, and then it responded to you as if somebody was typing on the other side of the computer.

00;06;33;24 - 00;06;54;17
Unknown
It's like a pen pal. Yeah, exactly. And you thought, wow. And making people go, wow. So for us, a lot of times it's, you know, throwing in hundreds and hundreds of, private asset documents that you can't make heads or tails of, and it goes through, it digests it, and it can see and it goes, here's your portfolio.

00;06;54;20 - 00;07;19;21
Unknown
We hope people go, oh, wow. In a way that they never they've never engaged with technology like that before. And that that's what our goal is. So unlimited cells mostly multifamily res right. Or. Yes. And you know and family offices, family offices. So that multifamily offices, offices, Rias and so and we're actually in the process of building out a lot of the right product.

00;07;19;23 - 00;07;43;02
Unknown
And actually at the moment, we have our partners we're working with to build that. But then all their individual clients get kind of access to, version of our sort of high net worth, platform. But then, you know, family offices are who we cater to a lot right now. And again, these are individuals who've worked with, you know, spreadsheets for many, many years.

00;07;43;05 - 00;08;06;09
Unknown
And when we ask them, you know, what's your tech stack like how, you know, most of them say you don't have anything really close to that. A lot of them have legacy spreadsheets that they've been managing for ten years, and then suddenly they get it over into this platform. They're just going, wow, this is this is 100 times better than anything we've really been able to play with over the years.

00;08;06;12 - 00;08;38;04
Unknown
So, so yeah. And, and it goes back to that idea of like, Excel is just so it feels rudimentary at this point. It was neat when it came out. But now, I mean, we can we can kind of take that same, just column row data and bring it to a next level and then add that, you know, intelligence layer of AI over it so you can chat with Layla or chat bot, and she can give you all sorts of insights about your portfolio and really start diving into it or diving into the documents in a way that people just, you know, again, they're like, oh my gosh, it's like having your own assistant

00;08;38;07 - 00;09;00;11
Unknown
in the room with you. How how this is awesome. I, I'm I'll be curious to see how and maybe your own experience once the user has that eyes light up moment. Right. And they start engaging with it, does their expectation level change like does the floor increase. So yeah yeah yeah. So so much that it's like it puts an expectation on you guys to be shipping a lot more.

00;09;00;13 - 00;09;25;09
Unknown
It's funny. What we found is initially people's people's expectations are way too low. Especially in finance, I think that people are very accustomed to legacy systems. They're they're accustomed to clunky UI or UX in the systems that they do have. They're older and, you know, we kind of have a joke around the office that, you know, finance systems don't have to suck, right?

00;09;25;09 - 00;09;43;19
Unknown
You don't have to go through this sort of pain. And I think when we talk to a lot of people and our partners, when we go on sort of those exploratory calls, they come back to us with like, well, you know, if we could just do this little thing, we go, yeah, yeah, that's that's easy, you know, set your expectations much higher.

00;09;43;19 - 00;10;12;04
Unknown
What what are your like one two halves, your, your, your kind of dreams and hopes for the product. And one of my developers always tells me, he says, you know, I think their bar is way too low. He goes, I think we should we should get them kind of ready to, to experience a whole lot more. But to your point, once they see the system, do they expect more, of course, you know, you start gradually, raising their bar and raising their expectations.

00;10;12;06 - 00;10;29;06
Unknown
And, and I think that that's one of the neat things that I allows you to do is scale that, because once somebody comes to you and they have a new use case and they go, you know, I really you know, I was talking to the chat bot the other day and it doesn't it doesn't integrate with this part of my portfolio or it doesn't integrate with this part of the system.

00;10;29;08 - 00;10;52;15
Unknown
And you go, phenomenal. That's, you know, we that's something we can do because we're an AI native company. We didn't build on legacy systems. We built this after I had sort of started to come out. And, and initially when we when we built it, the technology was, you know, much more primitive than it is today, but it was still built with this idea of, we're going to build this for AI.

00;10;52;17 - 00;11;15;24
Unknown
And it makes it very, very easy for us to integrate those components going forward versus legacy systems and legacy businesses that have to try to force AI into the way they had built things. We've built in in such a way that it really is not that difficult for us to apply it to. Another use case. Is that is it because of the way that you've set up your organizational design?

00;11;16;00 - 00;11;40;27
Unknown
What what about unlimited allows you to do that so quickly? Well, a lot of it comes down to how you organize the data, how you build the infrastructure around it. And so we've taken a lot of time and effort to think through, okay, how do we design this so that it is it won't become outdated as AI grows and actually can just lean into AI as we grew up.

00;11;40;27 - 00;12;01;22
Unknown
So a lot of that is systems, architecture, infrastructure. We spend a lot of time on that. My, my co-founder and CEO, David Sawyer, you know, he, he joined one of our, our development calls the other day. It was kind of it was kind of funny. I think the dev team the whole time just talked about infra issues, and he turns me on.

00;12;01;22 - 00;12;18;07
Unknown
He was in the same room and turns. He goes, is this the most boring dev call ever? I said, no, they're all they're all about this, this level of engagement. Because that's what we spend a lot of time thinking about is how do we organize this in such a way that is is completely scalable. And that's something I'm obsessed with.

00;12;18;07 - 00;12;35;29
Unknown
Is this the CTO is like the hyper scalability. It's one thing to build a system. It's another thing to build a system for the future. And we want to be forward thinking when we're designing this, not just trying to solve the problem now, but saying, okay, how do we grow into this? And then what do we want this to look like in two years?

00;12;35;29 - 00;13;04;17
Unknown
Three years? How do we build that now? You're, you told me, remember last time we met, it was like, you're not a traditional CTO, I think. I think you likely think, in a much more business minded operational sense. So. So you're right, I think. I think it behooves any AI native company to, like, build in a way that's hyper scalable in a way that maybe even modular, so that, like, you're able to produce something at a pace that isn't seems unreasonable today.

00;13;04;19 - 00;13;30;18
Unknown
How does the business thing keep up with that pace. Well like you said I think it's fortunate I'm not a traditional CTO and being a co-founder, you approach it from a very different, very different perspective. So a lot of times CTOs are hired on, as, as an, as an additional hire. They're not one of the co-founders.

00;13;30;18 - 00;13;50;15
Unknown
They're not necessarily one of the original founders of the company. They're brought on because they've started to grow the business. They had a couple developers, and they're running into a firewall when it comes to tech growth. And so they're saying, well, you know, we've we're encountering these issues. We can't seem to scale the technology side. So we're gonna bring on a CTO.

00;13;50;17 - 00;14;26;09
Unknown
And then they go out and they hire that person. And then that person is usually hyper technical because they need someone to solve that technical issue, but not necessarily business minded or business oriented. And so the nice thing I think about having someone at least early on, who especially when you're developing a SaaS company, has that business experience, but is also technically savvy enough that they can work with the engineers and that we, you know, we can push for, a technical design from the onset, I think is very helpful in terms of keeping the business, up to speed.

00;14;26;09 - 00;14;51;03
Unknown
I have a wonderful co-founder, and I can't stress this enough, is like, whoever if you're designing your company, building a company, if you're bringing on a co-founder or you are joining, a founder, make sure it is someone that you can really get along with and be very open and honest in communication. Fortunately, I had worked with David previously, Cass Investments here in Houston.

00;14;51;05 - 00;15;16;28
Unknown
He is a wonderful, long time friend. And so we have very open and honest communication. And if I'm moving too quickly, he lets me know if he's moving too quickly. I let him know. Fortunate thing is, David is an extraordinarily ambitious CTO. CEO. He is a wonderful, visionary leader. And so he is always also pushing us forward and moving extraordinarily quickly as well.

00;15;16;28 - 00;15;36;21
Unknown
So at the moment, both are moving at full speed and we're like just setting a really fast pace. But I think that one of the things you have to do is you have to have open communication between the tech side in the business side, and things are changing a lot. Our application changes a lot. And every month we have releases.

00;15;36;21 - 00;15;56;06
Unknown
I mean, we release every single month, and a lot of times even little releases within the month. Communicating to business what those are, what the plan changes are, what they can expect so that then they can go to the clients and the prospects and accurately communicate and understand and use the tools that we're giving them, and making them a part of that conversation.

00;15;56;06 - 00;16;17;08
Unknown
So that's actually very, very important. How does that work with monthly releases? Because you all use a FD model. Right. And so presumably like you're getting feedback on a daily, daily basis. Right on. Hey, what we like, what we don't like. Whatever. Yep. And I think you're building even faster, right. So why monthly? Why not?

00;16;17;10 - 00;16;46;01
Unknown
So a few things. One, we have to test this stuff. So. So what I've discovered is a lot of times people go, oh, we like to move really, really fast. We really like to break things. And it's like, okay, that's fine. But very quickly the product can get unruly and away from you. And suddenly what was once a point of strength suddenly becomes this huge behemoth of sort of a complex layer of of complicated systems.

00;16;46;04 - 00;17;07;16
Unknown
And your code base gets tons of legacy tech debt in there because you were moving so quickly, you didn't know what you were doing. You're like, we released all these features, but half of them are broken. Many of them are buggy. So what we like to do is we like to say, okay, there are certain things bugs, system fixes, requirements for a user to onboard that are like hard, hard requirements.

00;17;07;18 - 00;17;33;17
Unknown
We can expedite all those things. The things that we like to take our time on are additional feature enhancements, things that we think may make that user experience much more beneficial, or things that are complex, that require proper testing and handling or feature sets that are going to require our business users. So sorry, our sales guys.

00;17;33;17 - 00;17;51;24
Unknown
David. To understand the system better. And so it gives them a basically a period of time to test the feature before it goes out and say, what do they like? What do they dislike? It also allows us to go back to certain users who may have requested it and say, do you like this thing that we built?

00;17;51;26 - 00;18;18;22
Unknown
What would you change, if anything? And it gives us that capability in order to modify certain features. But, you know, to your point, it's not a hard deadline. We like to remain really, really flexible. I mean, we are a startup, and that's one of the benefits of it. But in terms of, again, that discipline, we want to bring that, to our team and said our, our tech team knows, okay, these are the requirements for the month.

00;18;18;25 - 00;18;43;02
Unknown
There will be additional work added on to this. But these are the big goals for the month. And if we can achieve those, we're doing really, really well. And set a bar that you can measure. Once again, I think it goes back to that idea of, of I come from a business background, hitting goals and milestones and making sure you're, you're on track is a really big part of of the operational side of business.

00;18;43;04 - 00;19;09;22
Unknown
Yeah. I got to imagine to like, you know, as you guys get better and faster and understand, you know, the I think one of the advantages of, again, being an AI native startup is that you're on the bleeding edge most of the time of, of how fast you can do things and it's a big reason why you see a lot of legacy customers in some of, you know, other AI native companies, you know, they'll have their in-house AI teams and they cannot move as fast as the startups can.

00;19;09;22 - 00;19;35;15
Unknown
Right. To the point that what we've seen in some of the other AI native companies, even some that I've been where you hear, is it like they'll they'll tell a customer, this will be 4 to 6 weeks, they'll actually create it in a week. But they don't want to, like, you know, tell the customer that, yeah, they'll spend maybe another week testing, QA, doing all the things, and then still, you know, come in early at three weeks, but but also just to, like, set expectations of probability, right.

00;19;35;19 - 00;20;00;21
Unknown
Appropriately because I think these customers start expecting more and more and more and more and more and more. More just like you and I do with, with an element with a foundational model. Right. I think when you also you can give a calendar schedule to customers, you go look, most of what you've requested is going to be released on the, you know, last Friday of the month, always.

00;20;00;23 - 00;20;20;20
Unknown
Right. And you set that expectation very early on. And so they can periodically expect that that really helps set that expectation. That is still so much faster than the traditional model, which was, you know, we'll get back to you in three months and, you know, it's going to take us at least a month to give you a mock up and all of that.

00;20;20;23 - 00;20;42;11
Unknown
One of the wonderful things and we talked about this, at the iron last week was we can cut down the time to get a prototype to a client from essentially one to maybe three weeks down, two hours and, and well, that conversation is so fresh in their mind, you're like, hey, this is what we discussed on the call.

00;20;42;14 - 00;21;03;07
Unknown
Is this where you're seeing this going? And that again, goes back to that wow factor that we talked about earlier is they go, whoa, that I mean, it's it's not the finished product. It's not necessarily been hooked up to actual live data or anything, but I can touch and feel it and interact with it already. That that is a very cool experience.

00;21;03;10 - 00;21;27;16
Unknown
For clients, has it has it changed how you expect to build out your engineering organization or product and engineering? Yes. Yeah. Again, like for a bit of my background, I originally came from a banking background, worked at Credit Suisse. And if you want to talk about legacy systems, they had some the greatest legacy in the sense of anyone's ever seen.

00;21;27;19 - 00;21;45;09
Unknown
The one of the first systems I worked on was older than I am. So I mean, it was like it was just it was archaic and I was in risk management. We all sat there saying, you know, there has to be a better way. We have to update all of this stuff. And they relied on a very traditional model.

00;21;45;11 - 00;22;15;07
Unknown
And you saw how slow it was and now with the advent of AI, people who are not traditional developers or traditional engineers can have outputs that are good enough to rival junior engineer levels. Right? And so suddenly you go from having to hire a lot of very specific engineer roles, which traditionally were kind of siloed off from the company.

00;22;15;07 - 00;22;39;19
Unknown
You had the, you know, business associates who go out and they talk to the clients, they gather the research, and then they'd have to translate that over to the developers. And it was this whole sort of game of telephone to now the forward deployed engineer model where you can send people to the client. They are generally people who are good with, conversation, good with the collection of requirements.

00;22;39;21 - 00;23;01;26
Unknown
But then if necessary, they can also go into the code base and they can actually implement many of those changes themselves just directly. And it saves a massive amount of time. And it also removes that whole game of, well, the client told this person, who then told the project manager who then told the developers what to do, you can all just make that one single.

00;23;01;29 - 00;23;28;23
Unknown
Linear relationship that it's just it's one person. So for us, yes, we're I mean that that is the future and it forces teams to be much smaller and much more agile, and move very, very quickly. But it is certainly far more scalable than the traditional model. And I think that that's probably the thing coming into this AI that has been the largest shock.

00;23;28;25 - 00;23;56;18
Unknown
Because, you know, when I started out of this company and, you know, you build all the budgets, you build everything when you're when you're dreaming, it up in those first, like month or two, you go, who are we going to hire? Well, we're gonna have to get two front end engineers and the four back end engineers and a project manager, and then, QA tester, and you come up with all these job roles and now suddenly realize, oh, I can run this entire thing with four engineers who are all sort of in flexible positions, and each touching multiple different components.

00;23;56;20 - 00;24;25;06
Unknown
Because I has now enabled them to become experts or near experts in every aspect of the product, not just one particular area. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I it's such an exciting time, but it's also a bit terrifying, right? Like like what? What keeps you up at night? What scares you about where this is going? Well, interestingly enough, we had been discussing.

00;24;25;06 - 00;24;53;04
Unknown
I've always called open floor. Yeah. And a few names. Yeah, it's had a few, and it keeps it changing, but I believe, OpenAI had just acquired them outright, and that that one was really interesting because we've been discussing it and we brought it to our, our head of AI engineering, and he was like, I don't know. And when you get a pause from a guy who's I mean, he's super gung ho, he's like, you know, we're going to do this, we're gonna do this or this, and you bring somebody else.

00;24;53;06 - 00;25;12;19
Unknown
I don't know how I feel about it. It makes you kind of pause for saying you go, whoa, I wasn't expecting that response. Because everything's cutting edge. Everyone, you know, you want to get your hands on everything. And, he said, you know, let's get some sort of isolated computers and we can put it on that and we can see what it does.

00;25;12;22 - 00;25;34;21
Unknown
That is that that's kind of a shocking thing, giving, giving the AI direct access to your physical computer, basically. You know, you don't necessarily know what it's going to do. And it's one of the reasons I tell everyone it's like I can touch so many different parts of our product. You cannot touch our database. It can't go in and start or start messing with things because you never know exactly what's going to happen.

00;25;34;24 - 00;25;59;05
Unknown
They're non-deterministic. And so, you know, who knows? I think managing those risks that keeps me up a little bit. Another thing that is a small cause for concern, I think down the line is we've seen the rise of vibe coding. So now everyone's an engineer sort of the way that, you know, when Apple came out with the iPhone camera, everyone became a photographer.

00;25;59;07 - 00;26;27;19
Unknown
Yeah. So my question now is sort of, well, in five years, who's going to be a junior engineer? Like, how do you how do you even get into that? That space, how do you how do you learn the required, you know, kind of basic, basic baseline education, like. Yeah. I wonder if, like, you know, because we were talking about that Matt Schumer, viral article and it's like, oh, 40 I don't know what the percentage is.

00;26;27;19 - 00;26;53;09
Unknown
40, 50% of white collar jobs are going to get eliminated. And, you know, I don't know if it feels a bit sensational, but, but there is this thought process of like, to your point, like a kid coming out of college, like, where do they go? And this does software engineering become an apprenticeship model where it's like you kind of create your own exploration and training program leveraging these tools.

00;26;53;11 - 00;27;17;11
Unknown
Maybe, but but one of the things is you utilize the tools over and over and over, and then the minute somebody asks you the why, as a junior engineer, you're not you're not going to know the answer to that. You're gonna say, well, because the air model told me that, and you go, okay, that's, you know, that's that's not a that's not a great response.

00;27;17;13 - 00;27;36;02
Unknown
You know, I suppose if everyone in the world is moved towards that system, that just becomes the new sort of status quo. It is interesting. And then, you know, how do you build the infrastructure? How do you how do you maintain it? These are the sort of questions that I just, I wonder about there. I don't think we're gonna have answers from today.

00;27;36;02 - 00;27;59;15
Unknown
And to answer them now is, is kind of ridiculous. I think we're just gonna have to see how it sort of evolves as a model. But trying to be cognizant of that and realizing, okay, there there may be a premium on engineering talent in the future of people who coded before AI versus the people who maybe learned afterwards.

00;27;59;17 - 00;28;21;16
Unknown
And certainly there will be a high, high premium, I think, on development talent who understand the fundamental why. Yeah. Behind it. Yeah. Yeah. I, I remember talking to another CTO and he, he was kind of proxying into it by saying, I will look for when I'm hiring someone, I will look for someone that is building artifacts to execute workflows, not someone to just execute a workflow.

00;28;21;16 - 00;28;40;28
Unknown
Right. And, and so you get to, you know, like to really build an artifact or a tool that accomplishes a goal. You have to understand what the problem statement is, what the solution is you're trying to get to, you know, inherently and then go out and execute on that. I, I don't think like sending A12 line prompt about what you're trying to solve.

00;28;40;28 - 00;29;02;15
Unknown
And building an artifact is going to be a successful way to build this out. Yeah. And yeah, I, I don't see how that could be, frankly. Yeah. But then, you know, John and our, our our conversation last week, he had hit some wonderful points on like the forward deployed engineering. Like there's going to be a premium on talent who can also interact with clients.

00;29;02;18 - 00;29;23;14
Unknown
So you know, despite I kind of making it difficult for junior engineers to get into position, it will open up, I think a lot of opportunities for, talented people who traditionally wouldn't have been considered engineers to enter into that space and have a have a place in the sort of tech development workflow in a way that they never would have before.

00;29;23;14 - 00;29;41;16
Unknown
So that's kind of actually neat. So it's like we're losing some of these jobs. We're also creating new jobs that didn't exist beforehand, you know, and, and new positions. And so that's that is kind of exciting. Reminds me, it makes me chuckle because, I started my career in oil and gas as a technical sales engineer. And effectively that's a forward to put engineer.

00;29;41;16 - 00;29;56;27
Unknown
I would go meet with a client, or a customer. They would be like, I need to put a hole in the ground here. And it's like, give me the, you know, the pH and the chemistry and all this stuff that's down there. And I can design you a well right now I got to go validate it with my engineering team.

00;29;57;00 - 00;30;12;15
Unknown
But I can at least get you, you know, a little bit closer. And when, you know, I met my mother in law, and, of course, they were trying to validate whether I was worthy. They were like, you know, what do you do? And all these things and, and and her ultimate conclusion was like, oh, he's an engineer that knows how to talk to people, you know?

00;30;12;15 - 00;30;39;00
Unknown
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That's like I finally found, the technology has finally caught up to me. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. But it's, it is, it is, it is exciting. Right? And, I guess, like, I, I, I think through everybody's making so many grand statements right now, all right, about what the future said. And part of that is just the nature of like, I think venture capital and in tech entrepreneurship tends to need to do that.

00;30;39;00 - 00;31;09;25
Unknown
It's like it's a bit like resumes, like because everybody else is embellishing. You kind of have to, you know, as well, it and and when you, when you start like taking a step back and trying to think through every, all the content you've digested around what is and what isn't, and then try to build like I, I guess where where do you, where do you find the trust or where do you rely on, on the outside noise to be able to dictate what you put into your product, into your organization?

00;31;09;27 - 00;31;34;09
Unknown
For us, we're client obsessed. So that's kind of the first place we look. I mean, it's like, what are the requirements? And then beyond that, I think it's experimenting with the technology itself. So something new comes out and is available. We may not integrate it, but we're certainly going to try it out and test it and see, you know, do we like this?

00;31;34;11 - 00;32;03;04
Unknown
Is it something we could use thinking in that direction? In terms of a lot of, like, the opinion pieces out there and everything, I, I really try to avoid most of them. I think that is a lot of noise. For me, it's it's it's really the obsession with what does the customer want, focusing on that and then speaking with my engineers and using them as the filter because they read everything out there.

00;32;03;06 - 00;32;25;13
Unknown
Especially if it pertains to, like, what they're doing and what their project is. And I think, yeah, I think the role of any good CTO or executive truly should be to distill information down. And it can be very easy to be caught in this sort of, the social media trap of like, just doom scrolling, people's opinions or conversations or anything they're having on AI and everything that's going out there.

00;32;25;13 - 00;32;57;08
Unknown
And there's just so much I would much rather go to my engineers and ask them directly, hey, what's new and hot in the space? What do you like? Why? But have you used it for, do you think there's an application for what we're doing? And then speaking to them about their individual projects? I find that, at least for me, is a lot easier to digest and understand and stay ahead of things, versus just looking through so, so much the information that's out there.

00;32;57;08 - 00;33;20;08
Unknown
I mean, there's just you never get through it. You know, you go on LinkedIn and it's just like, especially in my feed, everything's AI related. So, so so let's go to the next layer then. How do you I think of like the quotes of, you know, if, if maybe it was Elon Musk but is like if, if I were to go ask my clients what they want, they would just tell me to build a better car.

00;33;20;08 - 00;33;35;25
Unknown
It's a completely different media, you know, like what? And I like, how do I how do I truly build something that feels like it's the terminal business, which is like it's something that's going to, exist in the future and you skate to where the puck is going. Yeah. When? When you're so customer obsessed. I'm not saying it's wrong.

00;33;35;26 - 00;34;14;26
Unknown
No, no, no. I'm curious. Yeah, I, I, I hear that, I think, so I think what you've hit on is a lot of customers don't know what they want. So phrasing in that way and saying, what do you want in the system is not necessarily the right way to address it. All the way I like to address it is what is causing you pain in your current workflow, and suddenly it doesn't become them trying to, it's not them trying to fantasize about what sort of a system they would build if they were in your position, or how they would build technology because it's not their job.

00;34;14;28 - 00;34;34;29
Unknown
Like Elon Musk. Well, what do you want in the car? Well, I don't know. I don't build cars. I'm not I'm not a car engineer, I don't think I think it was probably Henry Ford. It was like a faster horse, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I like whoever, whoever. But, the, you know, the the whole point is you should say, what is it that is causing you pain?

00;34;35;01 - 00;34;56;28
Unknown
And then suddenly when they tell you what is causing them pain, you work with your team and you say, okay, how do we give them no pain? Or how do we lessen that? And suddenly when you go back to them and you go, look, I can get rid of your biggest pain point that becomes now a conversation about, okay, how much are you willing to pay to in the pain?

00;34;57;00 - 00;35;11;25
Unknown
Then anyone who you know has lived with any sort of chronic pain or anything like physical in their life, they're going, yeah, the amount of money I would spend in this is unbelievable. You know, I certainly to be healed, in business, it's no different. So you just come to someone and you say, what's your pain point?

00;35;11;25 - 00;35;32;17
Unknown
And you listen to them? And then you take that information and you try to create a solution. Now, if you don't understand the business. And I see this with a lot of entrepreneurs, they enter into a space because they think, it's interesting or, it's a, it's a new and hot field, but they don't understand the actual business application.

00;35;32;20 - 00;35;57;28
Unknown
And I think that's kind of where David and I have brought our experience to unlimited I, which is David, ran a multifamily office. Dave and I both worked at a very large alternative investment shop. You know, I've a history in risk management, in banking and this sort of data analytics and the trading and asset management, portfolio management, we've brought all of that experience over to unlimited.

00;35;57;28 - 00;36;19;10
Unknown
And I in order to say, okay, your pain points, we know many of them. But also in particular what are yours. Okay. Great. If we can put ourselves back in that sort of Ria portfolio manager space, how would we solve that pain point? And so when we present them a solution, it's going to be, you know, an eight out of ten or a nine out of ten.

00;36;19;12 - 00;36;34;03
Unknown
And then they just have to give a little bit more feedback to get us there. So that that's kind of how we go about it. And I think that that's a much better solution than just saying, what would you build? Yeah, yeah. Now it makes sense. I mean, it is I think about like what is going to differentiate the winners and losers, right.

00;36;34;03 - 00;37;07;21
Unknown
Because like as an investor you think, okay, we're in 1995 again, I got to make some bets because there will be some winners out of here. And we got to take advantage of this wave. I do think mindset and, you know, a founder profile, how people build all that stuff is, is incredibly important. All the qualitative side of business building is, is incredibly important and I, I until you'd said it, I hadn't really thought about like the mentality of going back to the basics of, hey, how do I assess my business in, in the context of painkillers versus vitamins?

00;37;07;24 - 00;37;21;20
Unknown
You know, because I do think that a lot of companies will either fall in the trap of, hey, if I build this, people will come. I think this is cool, right? And a lot of people build vitamins and those go away after a while. Some people may have painkillers, but then are they the painkillers that people even want?

00;37;21;20 - 00;37;40;05
Unknown
Right. And that's. Yeah. And I think it's so much easier to sell a solution to a problem than trying to say, this is really cool and edgy, that that is a branding and marketing play. And, you know, I'm not from branding or marketing and there are many people who are very successful with it. But that has to be your edge.

00;37;40;08 - 00;38;05;24
Unknown
If that is your as you come from a, you know, a place where you're like, I can sell, you know, anything and make it look really, really interesting, really hot. Great. You can have a lot of success in there. I would much rather focus on the things that I know were pain points and things that frustrate. I mean, the reason I this and this is kind of a funny story is originally David called me, he said, I'm thinking about leaving, like tonight.

00;38;05;27 - 00;38;24;02
Unknown
You know, I'm looking at a few things to do next, but I'd really like to get to fintech and maybe help, like solutions for limited partners in the alt space. And I said this was really weird. You say that because I have a report and a slide deck that I'm going to send you. That is this exact thing.

00;38;24;04 - 00;38;39;17
Unknown
And so then I sent it over to him and he'll tell, you know, tell you this. I'm sure it was like it was basically 80% of everything we talked about on the phone already. And the reason we were both thinking about it was because we both came from the space, and we both had had the same exact problems and those same frustrations.

00;38;39;20 - 00;38;59;01
Unknown
And now we get to build a solution for our own frustrations. Right? And, and we get to provide that to all of our old clients, as well as all sorts of, of new relationships that are coming out and going, hey, yeah, I have the same exact problem. We're like, we have the solution for you, dude, I, I'm very curious.

00;38;59;01 - 00;39;23;14
Unknown
I don't know if this is a fair question, but like, not having a software engineering background, how do you get buy in from your engineering team? I don't know. I personally, I don't know, I don't know, they, they, they seem to have trusted me so far. I think part of it is that expertise in the field.

00;39;23;16 - 00;39;57;07
Unknown
Like, I know what we're building. I know what we where we need to go. You know, how we get there is is an experience, and we're all together, and we're working through that. But ultimately, we're we're arriving to where we're marching to. I do know what that looks like. And so does David. And I think that that instills a lot of confidence among technical people, who otherwise have to, you know, I am a technical co-founder because I've worked with technology.

00;39;57;10 - 00;40;20;24
Unknown
You know, I, I, I have a background in applied financial mathematics. I, I enjoy it thoroughly. But when it comes to, you know, writing stuff on TypeScript, I'm not your guy. Right? I, I can vibe code very well, but, you know, we go back to that. But, when it comes to, to finding experts in that field, I trust them.

00;40;20;26 - 00;40;38;12
Unknown
And it goes back to the idea of hiring really, really great people. A gentleman I really looked up to, I didn't know him personally. I very few people did, but it was Jim Simons of, fintech, Restless Technologies. And this guy builds one of the greatest hedge funds of all time. And people go, I wonder how he did it.

00;40;38;12 - 00;41;07;25
Unknown
I wonder how he did it. And everyone's always wondering how he did it. He tells you he interviews you with him. He says, I hired really great people. Jim was not the reason Renaissance Technologies was making 78% a year. You know, he found the people who could build that company and make it phenomenal. Because you looked for really, really good talent and he could identify it.

00;41;07;27 - 00;41;40;14
Unknown
I think in unlimited. We've been very, very fortunate to have some really cracked engineers join our team. And, one of them actually from Stony Brook, which is Joe's old school. And, I felt like he was a bit of fate there, at play. But, you know, we like to hire really, really, really stellar 18 people because I may not have the answer to a very technical solution or a technical question, but they will be able to bring a very technical solution for that question.

00;41;40;16 - 00;41;54;27
Unknown
And that's what you that's why you hire great people. You don't hire people who are dumber than you and put them in a room. You won't get anywhere. You hire people who are way smarter than you, and you put them in a room. You go, this is where we're going to. And they join you on that journey and they help you get there.

00;41;55;00 - 00;42;21;18
Unknown
So. Well, then you, I've said this in other contexts before, but it was like when we look for founders, we kind of assessed across 4 or 5 categories, but around, you know, cognitive velocity, inner drive, uncompromising standards and, and the ability to, like, distort reality. Right. So vision hearing is, is part of that. Right? I guess as a, as a, as a, you know, a tactical way of thinking through that.

00;42;21;20 - 00;42;42;25
Unknown
I say if like when people talk, say something and you read it, you think this person's crazy, right? The way they say it, you're like, well, this is inevitable. I've never I've never heard a CTO have this quality. And I feel like you all, I've got a really good job at that. I mean, yeah, it's, it's been an absolute ride of a lifetime.

00;42;43;01 - 00;43;03;22
Unknown
I mean, I've, I've loved every moment of it. But I think some of the stuff we're doing is really, really cutting edge. And if you had told me three years ago, you're like, you're going to be part of, like, cutting edge technology. I've been like, I, I like risk management. I like portfolio finance. That's, that's that's my thing.

00;43;03;24 - 00;43;32;19
Unknown
And now, I found myself in a very, very different place that I've thoroughly enjoyed. But I can tell you for 100% we would not be on the cutting edge of technology if it weren't for an absolutely cracked team of engineers that that is undeniable. How many how big is it? You know, let's see it. Just the engineering team where, you break it down.

00;43;32;19 - 00;43;56;26
Unknown
The whole organizational design. I'd be curious to see what the reason I think we've got 1 to 3. We have three and a half on the business side, and we've got is the half. David is that way. No, no, no it doesn't. David doesn't have to, our AI, head of AI is sort of he he he share he bridges that world between business and technology, and he does it really, really well.

00;43;56;28 - 00;44;18;09
Unknown
He was actually our first hire since Tommy McGuire went to Duke. For an AI Masters, which was really kind of for us. We'd never heard of that before. Duca. Just our offering. And so, really, really smart guy. And he's always been sort of like our half on the tech side, half on the business side.

00;44;18;12 - 00;44;40;16
Unknown
Because he can do both of it very, very well. And then on the technical side, we've got. I think four and a half, five and a half and what's this. And they're all kind of utility players is, is the way you. Yeah. Yeah I mean we've got I mean even like our front end guy is like doing all sorts of backend and even infrastructure.

00;44;40;22 - 00;45;04;29
Unknown
I mean, you came out the other day and you showed me this, new infrastructure component. He was he was working on. I was like, great, you know, like, hey. And again, I don't even know if I mean, he's very, very smart, but I don't know if he would've been able to have done that without AI. And so and this goes back to my, my one thing I believe very firmly on AI is I don't see it replacing mass amounts of people.

00;45;04;29 - 00;45;26;15
Unknown
I mean, you had that statistic like 40% or something, white collar workers are going away. I don't see that as the case because when you get a new tool, people are going to find ways to optimize that tool and make themselves even better. For years we had hammers and nails and then we got nail guns, and that didn't replace everyone at our work site.

00;45;26;17 - 00;45;48;19
Unknown
It made them all more efficient. Made a job more efficient. I think that this will just drive. It'll make really smart people way smarter. And it'll even make just average, regular Joes like myself, you know, able to code up, you know, certain components and be able to have our own, you know, code pushes into our get and just build more houses.

00;45;48;19 - 00;46;07;07
Unknown
Yeah. And exactly. And so I don't fear for that. I like I don't think that that's going to replace people. I think people are just going to use it as a really powerful tool, to just augment everything they're doing. So what questions are you working through right now? Well. And is different, like what's keeping you up at night?

00;46;07;07 - 00;46;34;15
Unknown
Like, no, no, no, this thing like this is, this is interesting. So, something again, you talk about like vision. A year ago, David was talking very like just hounding the idea of a genetic system. So genetic frameworks. And this was back when the genetic systems and frameworks were like, primitive at best, this very much. And we talked about this even before anthropic did their whole thing.

00;46;34;15 - 00;46;52;09
Unknown
This is kind of our, our end of 2025 group, meeting. We got everyone and we've got some people who were remote. We brought everyone into use and we all sat down for a full day and, like, worked out what is 2026 gonna look like? And one of our big points was this is the year of a genetic workflows.

00;46;52;13 - 00;47;17;09
Unknown
This is the revisions. Sure enough, anthropic does their whole thing and the whole space explodes and everyone. And now it's all agents, all the time. How we utilize that and how we build our own genetic systems, is something we are really focused on and making it so that they are very, very cutting edge and also hyper scalable.

00;47;17;13 - 00;47;46;16
Unknown
Because we see this with AI, it's constantly getting replaced with itself, it's constantly getting outdated. And so the things that were cutting edge six months ago, a lot of times you have to look at, you have to tear out and you have to replace, so one of the big questions we constantly, I think, we ask ourselves, and I think anyone building in this space needs to ask themselves is, how do I look forward enough to try and build a framework now that is scalable into the future, even as things change?

00;47;46;18 - 00;48;17;11
Unknown
Or at least is easy enough to plug and play with. So I think that's what like one of the really big ones we're working through on our as a technology team. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so how do you because I do think agenda gets thrown around a lot. I mean, I think the generally accepted definition right now is, is been like, hey, it's something that can not just automate but do it in a dynamic way that allows for some, you know, differences in output within it, within a framework.

00;48;17;11 - 00;48;44;02
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that how you guys are thinking about it, or are you referring to like workflows, complex workflows, or increasingly complex workflows like increasingly complex workflows? I think I think is the number one way we think about it, but also then the ability to tool call. So it's like you have these complex workflows and then you have a set of tools available for your agents, okay, pick up and use the right tools and then do that multiple times.

00;48;44;02 - 00;49;08;17
Unknown
Interact with other AI bots essentially that that are doing the same thing. Okay. Now orchestrate all that together. How do you build a workflow that can do that? And then also how do you build a workflow that can be user driven? So you say, well, do X, y, z and build this for me. And then suddenly now you have them going, okay, I have these tools available, I have these different agents I can call.

00;49;08;19 - 00;49;34;25
Unknown
How do you build that within a work stream? And it's extraordinarily complex. But very cutting edge, but like, right, like it goes back to the idea of, like, this is so exciting for me, to be able to work in a space where, again, like I said, three years ago, I, I no way am I going to be like, working with AI engineers on like, the, the latest and greatest technology.

00;49;34;27 - 00;49;57;03
Unknown
And sure enough, I find myself here and and again, our engineers are just so, dedicated to this space. They're constantly coming to me and just, like, absolutely blowing me away, like, you know, you you come in after a weekend and like, hey, I built this thing for you. And you look at it, and, I mean, we have a sales agent now that looks at all the calls.

00;49;57;03 - 00;50;17;08
Unknown
It looks at all, you know, the information that's coming in and then provides feedback to our business users. And so our it's not just our tech side or our clients that are utilizing this. We're utilizing it internally. And our sales team gets to utilize it internally and chat and ask questions about, okay, what, what, what are what should be my next steps.

00;50;17;08 - 00;50;36;05
Unknown
I can offer and provide solutions and it can work through, you know, different approaches and things like that to help manage your sales pipeline. It's really extraordinary stuff. And so yeah, again, like it's not just external facing with us. We integrate it even internally. Yeah. I you sound a lot like a, you know, an executive manager, right.

00;50;36;05 - 00;50;52;00
Unknown
Of people. Right. You're talking about like, how do I get my people to do this, right. Or and then and then not just do that, but then how do I get them to also manage their team to execute on something? Yeah. Except it's, you know, it's no longer that, right? It's it's agents and you're only talking to one person.

00;50;52;00 - 00;51;21;26
Unknown
It's, you requires a higher level of of of thinking and coordination that, to your point, it's not going to replace people, but it's going to force people us to do more. Yeah. And I think, again, back to your idea. Do the clients expect more or the more they see this? Well, I can say internally we expect more from our employees and from ourselves when we see it because it's like, okay, so now we know that this is achievable.

00;51;21;28 - 00;51;40;10
Unknown
What next? How do we keep like pushing that boundary and which is kind of wild you know. Yeah, yeah. It goes back to the idea of, well, we've cut the time down to an hour and at our talk, the other day, you're like, how do we get this even faster and even more scalable? And it's like, it's the right question to ask because.

00;51;40;13 - 00;51;54;29
Unknown
That's how you push the limit. That's how you go even higher. Yeah. We got it downstream. How do how do we make it so that as we're having the conversation, who knows the agent is writing it up and at the end of the conversation it can pull it up on screen. Who knows? I mean, is that the next iteration?

00;51;55;01 - 00;52;45;28
Unknown
Possibly. What is next for Hunter and unlimited? Yeah. Now I feel like a podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What is next? I think, continuing to continuing to deliver like a really quality product. We like I said, we hyper focus on on that user experience, UI, UX and the belief that financial products don't have to suck. We want to build for people a really elegant platform and a solution that they want to utilize daily, and they want to trust is like, a single point solution, for their wealth, and, and be able to track on and manage all their assets in it.

00;52;46;00 - 00;53;12;04
Unknown
I think beyond that, also, you know, we're building out and working on the RA program, and we've got some wonderful design partners who are already, you know, committed to this and helping us build this out, I think, over the next, you know, year perfecting, this sort of upcoming, this upcoming project, I think will be a really, really, incredible moment for our company.

00;53;12;04 - 00;53;36;11
Unknown
Yeah, a big unlock. Yeah. And I think we're going to do some really incredible things with agents. I can't talk about it right now. It's like our secret project, but I think it will. It'll be pretty revolutionary to the entire, investment space, especially in alternative investments. So I'm looking forward to hearing what it is. Last question then I'm happy to answer any questions you might have for me.

00;53;36;14 - 00;54;09;00
Unknown
If it wasn't now that now you've had this experience building in the in the AI native space, especially post all the finance risk management stuff you done. If you weren't doing this, what would you be doing? You know, I, I, I absolutely love quantitative finance. It's like a, it's a passion of mine, I think, before I, before I was here, I, started a small quantitative hedge fund, which David squared back then.

00;54;09;00 - 00;54;29;22
Unknown
And, I would love to do something in that space again. If I wasn't doing this, I have to say, I enjoy this a lot more, than I ever enjoyed. The quantitative space, although I loved it. I'm quite happy where I am now. But again, if I wasn't doing this, probably quant finance. Okay. But but like this.

00;54;29;22 - 00;54;47;10
Unknown
What I'm saying, like, even especially now. Yeah, you've, you've you've gotten this flavor and you realize like, oh, this is, this is super exciting. Is it, is it I for hedge funds, or do you feel like like I've had. Yeah, I've heard people say the complete opposite. They're like, you know what? I is a lot of fun.

00;54;47;10 - 00;55;10;25
Unknown
It's crazy. It's it's beautiful. But, you know, give me something tangible. Let me go make some croissants. You know, like, I don't know, I'm, you know, it's it's funny. I, I don't know, I, I enjoy the tech space. I really, really do. I think that when we talk about, like, like quant finance, it's much more, deterministic.

00;55;10;27 - 00;55;28;19
Unknown
Yeah, I it can give you five different answers if you ask it five different times, the same question. I think deterministic systems, things like that and in the quant space can be very, very rewarding. Because you get a solid answer. It's kind of like baking croissants. It's like, oh, I want to go back. Croissants. I know what a croissant looks like.

00;55;28;20 - 00;55;46;08
Unknown
It. You know, at the end of the day I can eat it. Same thing with, you know, deterministic math. It's like, this is the risk output. Maybe wrong, maybe right. Depends on your model. But that is that's an official answer. That you can then action on and it doesn't change. It'll change if the data changes.

00;55;46;08 - 00;56;06;07
Unknown
But you know, all else equal that that's your solution. So so you are an engineer and you want to deep down. Deep down. Yeah, I suppose so. That and that was actually one of the craziest things and hardest things for AI. Initially and even even to, to the day, it's like, you don't know if you're always going to get the right answer.

00;56;06;10 - 00;56;29;03
Unknown
There's always that, that probability you won't. And so that's one of the things I tell our AI team is our entire team is we don't utilize AI for mathematical outputs. Right. You got to use traditional systems, machine learning because you you can show the right answer 99 times out of 100 that 1% of times you show the IRR incorrectly.

00;56;29;06 - 00;56;50;29
Unknown
That is that's that's not acceptable. Right. So there are things there are limits to like what you can do with AI. And I don't think people talk about that very often. They think it's like this limitless thing. And it does all that. Like there are still applications for just traditional, normal ways of doing things because their outputs are not always with certainty.

00;56;50;29 - 00;57;17;29
Unknown
So, any last controversial thoughts? Controversial. Yeah. They got to be controversial. Controversial? I think that there is a, back to the idea that. What we talked about earlier with, you know, all the noise out there. I think that there is a lot of, I fear mongering. And I think there's a lot of just kind of hype pieces that people put out.

00;57;17;29 - 00;57;39;21
Unknown
And when you start reading that and you start spiraling and you start thinking, oh, it's like doomsday. It's the it's the Terminator, and they're going to take over and all this stuff. And then you start to work with these systems day in and day out and you realize, oh, that they're just models. It's just math. It's non-deterministic math, but it is it is still math.

00;57;39;23 - 00;57;47;20
Unknown
And I think that there's a lot of piece that people can actually find in just understanding that, like.

00;57;47;22 - 00;58;13;21
Unknown
Bad news sells a whole lot better than good news. There's so much good news out there. I mean, and the story that should be making the rounds is what, Google's been able to do in the realm of, medicine and, protein discovery and things like that. These are incredible, incredible advancements and discoveries, but they're not getting the news in the press feed that, you know, Wall Street Journal has some article the other day about, like when when agents talk back or something like that.

00;58;13;21 - 00;58;31;24
Unknown
And, you know, is this whole fearmongering piece and funny sentences, can this happen? I said, I don't think so. Is this one guy saying, oh, it talk to me? It started talking back to me, which fundamentally kind of goes against how they're programed. Right? So I yeah, I doubt it, I don't remember I think that that piece is even.

00;58;31;26 - 00;58;59;04
Unknown
Yeah. Accurate. Yeah. I think the wonderful discoveries that people are making in the realm of science and medicine, I think those are the things that should be lauded and applauded and shared, because it's going to make the world a much better place ultimately. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. I, there's a there's a couple articles. I remember one, it was like, the engineer that was like getting, blackmailed by the model.

00;58;59;04 - 00;59;21;09
Unknown
Right? And he was like, I'm going to share. Yeah, yeah, I remember you like cheating on your wife when I was like, I don't see how you get there without giving it some context around this. And then, like, forcing the answer again, like it just doesn't. Something isn't adding up. I've never seen, you know, we've done millions and millions of of calls to these agents and they're nothing but sycophantic and helpful.

00;59;21;12 - 00;59;47;16
Unknown
You know, because that's how they're programed. They you give them a task, they have to accomplish the task. They are forced to accomplish the task. Not accomplishing the task would mean that they're not actually optimizing their solution. Which is fundamentally not how they work. So I, I just wonder when I see those when I see those articles, I think I don't I just don't fundamentally see how that could be true, unfortunately.

00;59;47;16 - 01;00;04;21
Unknown
Right, right. I don't want to say he's lying, I guess in tacit. Yeah, yeah. Things. Not all it appears to be. Yeah. In the same way it makes, to your point, advances in science and math way more efficient. Yes. People can use it for real as well as get more efficient at. But but I love other the last comment.

01;00;04;23 - 01;00;08;28
Unknown
Thanks so much, Hunter Hannity unlimited, I thank you, I appreciate it. Yeah, this has been fun.